Verbal Abuse

Verbal abuse is the use of language to manipulate, control, humiliate, insult, ridicule, put down, and show disrespect to another person.   Patricia Evans says:

Domestic violence is about the control of one human being by another. This control begins with verbal abuse and is similar to mind control. Verbal abuse attacks one’s spirit and sense of self. Verbal abuse attempts to create self doubt. “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” “You don’t have a sense of humor,” “You can’t take a joke,” “You’re too sensitive,” “You’re crazy.”

Verbal abuse so controls ones mind that some women who have left a verbally and sometimes physically abusive relationship twenty or more years ago still find themselves wondering, “Maybe there’s something I could have done…,” or, “Maybe if I’d tried to explain just one more time my relationship would have gotten better.” Very often the people who find themselves the target of controlling behaviors can’t comprehend that anyone would want to control them so they try to be nice. This doesn’t work. You can’t stop a rapist by being extra nice. http://www.verbalabuse.com/10.shtml

There are different types of verbal abuse, though an abuser is likely to use a combination of many or most of these.

Accusing/blaming – accusing or blaming another for outbursts, expressions of anger, bad moods, mistakes and failures.

Covert/subtle – this is when the abuser sounds sincere and loving but is still manipulating, controlling, blaming, etc.

Denial – the inability to admit and take responsibility for one’s own actions and words when confronted with their own behavior and words.

Discounting – denigration or denial of the experience, skills, maturity,  and abilities of another; often marked by distortion or lies

Judgmental criticism Criticism that goes beyond neutral and/or constructive verbal correction of erroneous actions; comprised in part of ridicule, name calling, denigration, and/or humiliation.

Humiliation – Public or private intentional shaming and embarrassment of any kind.

Manipulation – Appealing to and/or using another’s sense of responsibility or obligation to achieve a personal goal.

Name calling/epithets – All name calling, and epithets directed at another are abusive.

Ridicule – Making fun of and otherwise “putting down” another person or group based on their appearance, gender, competency, beliefs, ethnicity, culture, or religion.

Teasing/joking – Humor at the expense of another, comprised of humiliation, exaggeration and/or fabrication.

Threats — threatening to hurt or kill another or another’s loved ones, pets, etc.  May also be threats to get custody of children, take all financial resources, tell lies to others, damage another’s reputation, etc.,   may include threats to commit suicide, file false charges, or false reports to child services.

Opinions as threats – an abuser sees another’s different opinions as attacks and feels threatened and goes on the offense.  A typical abuser’s attitude for this is “the best defense is a good offense.”

Redefining reality – This form of control is very oppressive.   When an abuser tells another what reality is, the abuser is playing God and is discounting the other’s experience by defining “THE TRUTH”-which in fact is a LIE.

How do you know if you are in a verbally abusive relationship?  Ask yourself the following questions:

Does your partner:

Put you down?

Criticize you?

Put down your dreams and goals?

Tell you how to dress?

Make you feel crazy – play “mind games”?

Always misunderstands what you’re saying?  Is extremely literal or exact in the meanings place don your words?

Do you:

Ever wonder what’s wrong with you?  Ever tell your partner to stop?  Make excuses for your partner?

When you and your partner get into a fight, are you the one who always ends up crying and saying you’re sorry?

Verbal abuse is counter to the teachings of Jesus.  Jesus always exhibited respect for everyone He met.  He taught such things as the golden rule.   He taught that anyone who calls another by an insulting, belittling name is in danger of hell fire (Matt. 5:22).  Proverbs tells us many things about verbal abuse:

The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable, but the mouth of the wicked what is perverse (10:32)

There is one who speaks like the piercings of a sword, but the tongue of the wise promotes health (12:18 )

A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit (15:4)

A healthy relationship will demonstrate good boundaries and respect for one another.  Good communication will include the following:

1.       Being of one mind.  People will not always agree on everything, nor should they be expected to do so.  However, it’s important to work towards growing in Christ and developing the bond of unity in Him.  Mutual submission helps respect one another, especially in important decision making.

2.       Having compassion.  Knowing that the other person truly cares enables people to share their deepest thoughts and feelings with one another.

3.       Demonstrating love.  While it seems obvious, love can sometimes be the most difficult thing to maintain.  1 Corinthians 13 should be our guide in this.

4.       Being tenderhearted and courteous.  This means having an attitude that puts the other person’s needs ahead of our own.

5.       Blessing the other person.  This means always wanting the best for him or her.

 

Some references: http://www.verbalabuse.com/3.shtml; http://www.usda.gov/da/shmd/aware.htm#WHAT; http://www.drirene.com/verbalabuse.htm; http://silverreflection.tripod.com/speakoutagainstverbalabusecopy/id23.html

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37 thoughts on “Verbal Abuse

  1. RichardD says:

    Thank you for this post. Although I don’t want to be a victim of this form of abuse, even more I don’t want to be the abuser. I must watch my mouth. I recognize many of these things in the way that I talk to my son and I need to be careful.

  2. Sandy says:

    Richard,
    If you’ve not already read it, Cloud and Townsend has a good book for parents called Boundaries for Kids that you might find helpful. It seems especially helpful for parent with special needs kids. Our son and daughter on law use the teaching from that book with our granddaughters and I really like how it helps the parents. Another good one is Boundaries with Teens.

    I think we can almost all recognize some of this behavior in ourselves some of the time. James speaks about the man who can master his tongue as a perfect man. Most times, that’s put towrds gossip, etc. but I also think it applies in this area. And you are right, we need to be careful.

  3. RichardD says:

    Thanks Sandy – I’ll look for these books. I could use the help. Could have used it last night in fact.

  4. Hannah says:

    Another good reference is James 3. The entire chapter covers the power of the tongue.

  5. Sandy says:

    Yes, good idea! Thanks, Hannah.

  6. Lynn says:

    Sandy and all, I would appreciate prayer in this area with regard to one of my children and her attitude problem with one other person in our family. I thank God there is a counselor at our church, with a waiting list, and I have put myself on that waiting list. Yesterday my daughter and I had a conversation where she opened up to me, and I told her I was thinking of having a couple sessions with the counselor for me, and also for her, so she could learn some strategies for coping with her irritation levels.

    One of her problems is a guilt trip. She says she has angry thoughts, and prays to feel loving, and when her feelings don’t change, she thinks she is failing God, or that God is failing her. I told her that our sin nature is something we will have done with at the end of this life not before, that it is OK to have feelings of irritation, or anger, just like if you hit me I will hurt or if you cut me I will bleed. And there is a proper way to acknowledge and deal with the feelings (a way that is loving to others) and an improper way (a selfish way), or a stuffing way.

    I reminded her Christ did everything for her and she was to rest in Him.

    Anyway, I’d appreciate prayers. Thanks.

  7. Sandy says:

    Lynn,
    I’ll certainly be in prayer for you and your daughter.

  8. Lynn says:

    Thanks. We have a pretty good relationship, and today she surprised me with a little gift and told me she loved me. But I tend to bite my knuckles over them, and especially so as they get to be adults. I have one adult, one soon to be, and one still in “the wonder years.” They are blessings.

    How is your granddaughter, btw?

  9. Sandy says:

    I found it really hard as the boys got older. I always wanted to spare them as much pain as possible so I understand the bitten knuckles. Honestly, even though they’ve both been away from home for several years and have tunred into wonderful men, I still have the sore knuckles times. 🙂

    My granddaughter is some better. She’s been released from the hospital at this time and she and her mother are actually on their way here today to spend a few days and then take home the older one who’s been here with us during this time. Apparently the baby, along with having a cleft palate, is unable to break down the protein in regular formula. She’s now on a high calorie type with a different break down of proteins and has gained a few precious ounces instead of losing, praise God. Thanks for your prayers. Please continue to remember her, if you would.

  10. Lynn says:

    I surely will be praying, Sandy. I’m glad they get to spend a couple days with you. I’m glad to hear that some problems were pinpointed and that a better formula seem to be working for her. What a relief!

  11. I do not accept any abuse quietly too but shout it from the housetops

  12. (1 Pet 3:7 KJV) Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

  13. I want to say this gently. The last thing I want to do is manipulate or harm others. I was very moved by this intelligent blog and I was about to ask permission to share it when I saw, interjected in the middle, one of the most powerful forms of manipulation and guilt abuse. Religious dogma.

    Don’t get me wrong. I love the teachings of Jesus, but I have experienced and seen in other abusive relationships, The Bible used more often than anything else to manipulate and control.

    Our hearts are connected to the Creator. We need to learn to trust our OWN hearts…our OWN connections…not depend, entirely, on words written by men, many of whom, in my opinion, did not grasp what Jesus was trying to say. Jesus wanted us to find God within ourselves. He died, breaking away from religious dogma. I am an abuse survivor. Never again, will I let any man, book or idea rule me. I connect, directly, to my Creator…as did Jesus. I will use that connection to discern what teachings have value for my growth, as he hoped that we all would do.

    If you really want to help people who are being abused, then post this blog somewhere, without interjecting religious beliefs. There are many women (and men) out there who are experiencing this abuse from people holding the Bible over their heads.

    I offer this opinion humbly and with great respect. It’s meant only as food for thought.

    Blessings and Peace.

  14. Brandi says:

    Dear sister…my heart absolutely breaks for you…I am so sorry that you have been so wounded. Like you, I too have a history of abuse…and I have sought healing in so many things, places, and people…and yes, within myself…only to end up more wounded. However…then I met Jesus! I began a healing journey with Him that has transformed my life. Apart from Him and the teachings of His word I had no freedom…I had no peace. I am now able to embrace my past…no longer being driven and haunted by it. Perhaps the following poem that I wrote can shed some light on what my heart is trying to share with you…

    “Precious Revealing” By Brandi

    Much time I have invested to count my loss,
    Very much focused on determining the cost,
    Carefully considering the placement of blame,
    With little time devoted to discovering my gain.

    If the tragedies of my youth had stayed far from me,
    I have trouble imagining just where I might be.
    Would I be so devoted to doing my best…
    Or be able to appreciate a good night of rest?

    The hope that lingers in my daughter’s eyes,
    Would it be veiled to me and in disguise?
    Her heart so pure and her love so free,
    Is that something I would be able to see?

    The pain so apparent in other’s lives,
    If not for my past would that be a surprise?
    A dear sister in pain, could I begin to relate,
    As she shares about the hurt and the hate?

    Would my need of a Redeemer be clear to me?
    Or perhaps I’d be blind, unable to see.
    Because of all of the places I have been,
    I know far to well the devastation of sin.

    If all of my pain had never been felt,
    Before the Lord would I have knelt?
    Would I have ever come to this precious place,
    Of knowing His love and His saving Grace?

    It was the hurt & pain that drew me to His face,
    For that very reason, my wounds I embrace.
    Because now I know about an amazing love,
    That can only be revealed by the Father above.

    My journey continues, and I still must concede,
    That some of my wounds do occasionally bleed,
    But by way of my Healer’s death on the cross,
    I no longer dwell solely upon all I have lost…

    Out of the comfort that my Savior does share,
    I minister to others & show them I care.
    Without the wounds I’m not sure where I’d be,
    I now know that “my past” is my ministry.

    Others ask “when” He began to show me the way,
    And because of His mercy, I am now able to say,
    “I believe He began this precious revealing,
    Somewhere between…my hurt and my healing”.

    ~Written May 27, 2007 – March 27, 2008~

    I can tell by the tone of your words above that you are a truly precious woman…and it is so my heart’s desire that you be made whole again. That my friend can only truly happen if you allow Jesus, who is crazy in love with you…who aches for you…to heal you! I hear your heart as you shared about the religious abusers that exist…I am greived to acknowledge that there ARE many who pervert the Word of God and use it as weapon to hurt others…I assure you that they will certainly answer to our Lord for that. But, please know that the Word of God, if applied as He intended, is a healing salve that will change your life…as it has mine!

    As you so eloquently stated…I too offer this opinion humbly and with great respect…simply “food for thought”. You know, we may not share the same story…we may not share the same wounds…but we do share the fact that we have both been deeply wounded…and my heart longs for you to find the peace and freedom that I have been given from my wonderful Savior! Precious one, may our Lord bless you beyond your wildest expectations…and may you find the healing and the peace that He so desires for you!

    P.S. I am very new to this blog…but I am certain from what I have read that Sandy would absolutely love to discuss more indepth with you any areas of this site that concern or confuse you. Blessings to you!

  15. Bettina says:

    Thank you, Brandi. I appreciate your kind words. Please understand that, yes, I was wounded, but I have healed much because of my personal connection to my Creator. I live by my faith. I was “born again” at 17. I have studied the Bible. I can honestly state that I was saved by Jesus because that was my first experience with the reality of Spirit. My beliefs have changed much through my opening to my own connection with God. I believe the metaphysical laws that Jesus spoke of exist in many religions. I believe they are revealed to those with open hearts. I’m happy that you have found a belief system that resonates with your Soul. Your poem is beautiful and I especially like the last two lines.

    One of my favorite Biblical verses is “God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 Jn 4:16).

    A Choice for love is a connection to Creator, no matter what religion you choose…again, my humble opinion.

  16. Bettina says:

    I just wanted to add that I just stumbled on to this blog and did not mean to stir up anything negative. I rejoice in my beliefs as I know you all do in yours. Again, many blessings.

  17. The fastest way to be healed from any abuse is to let Jesus himself heal you

  18. Sandy says:

    Bettina,

    I appreciate your humble and careful words. I do not mind in the least that you have stopped by and shared food for thought for us. I actually welcome it and encourage it and hope you continue to do so.

    There are many who have experienced religious abuse and I know from personal experience how devastating that is. Part of my motivation in posting this in this way is to minister to those who are in religious groups which enable abusing. It is important for those of us who believe in Jesus to understand that abuse is not what He taught nor is it acceptable to Him. Many times women hear in church that submission to their husbands means that they must put up with abuse. I desire strongly to show that this is not sound Biblical teaching.

    Brandi has very eloquently stated much of what I believe (thanks, Brandi). Again I appreciate your humble and kind tone and do not think you have “stirred up” anything negative. Your thoughts are most welcome here.

  19. Lynn says:

    “The Bible used more often than anything else to manipulate and control.”

    Certainly, the Bible has been used to manipulate and control. I don’t know how true the “more often” part is though, as I haven’t known of all the cases of people unselfishly laying down their lives to minister to others in the name of Jesus (on account of the teachings of the Bible) verses all the cases of people who use the Bible to manipulate and control others.

    One thing I am sure of — those two groups exist. I’ve been blessed by the former and hurt by the other. We all know about Mother Theresa and Jim Bakker. It sounds as though you’ve been through some pretty rough waters, too.

    “If you really want to help people who are being abused, then post this blog somewhere, without interjecting religious beliefs. There are many women (and men) out there who are experiencing this abuse from people holding the Bible over their heads.”

    You’ve hit on something here. Although I don’t think your suggestion is workable in a blog forum, being public and all, and not a place for severe abuse recovery per se, I do understand that what you suggested is sometimes very necessary for some people to heal from spiritual abuse.

    Spiritual abuse is real. Christian counselors who are on the front line of dealing with multiplied cases of spiritual abuse describe, in detail, its ramifications in people’s lives, and the chief one is, is the abuse really messes with people’s emotional and cognitive perceptions of who God is, and what their relationship to Him is.

    Sometimes, as part of the early phases of treatment programs, these counselors will tell people to throw away their Bibles, because for some, even looking at a Bible triggers depression, panic attacks, and the like. This is a severely unfortunate necessity in some people’s lives, one that I surmise you are suggesting in your above comment. In order to help separate the person’s wrong belief that the Bible is the source of the abuse, he or she is counseled to get away from all Christian material and meetings that trigger such horrible feelings of panic or self-recrimination. It is tragic, because Christian truth teaches that Christ bore all the shame and guilt of sin so we wouldn’t have to! Christian truth is liberating and healing!

    However, the process in Christian counseling doesn’t end there, for once a person has been able to correctly identify that the abuser was, in fact, misusing the Bible, the counselors I have read focus on instilling true Biblical teaching into people — principally how great the grace of God is toward sinners, and that ministers are not in the place of God, and should never be placed there. Nor are husbands. Or any person who is using the Bible as a “submission stick.”

    In many ways I can relate to your comment, having experienced things like this in my former church situation. However, I cannot just look inside myself for the truth I need. I need the company of other believers, and I need the Bible, which above all else points me to the love of Jesus.

    I would never have known of His great love or the story of Redemption without the Bible and the witness of believers. I could never have looked inside myself long enough to have figured that out. As a famous preacher once said — “Look within, and be distressed. Look around, and be depressed. Look up, and be blessed.”

    If I look within, I see my own sin, selfishness, along with a desire for what is right, I see proneness to great error in many things, and I find I am right about many things. I need the correction of God’s objectivity in my life to sort out what is true from what is error, and what is right from what is wrong, and how to think about myself. True, He has given me His Spirit, but He has also given me His Word, and the love of other believers.

    It may be hard to believe, but within “religious circles,” there is a lot of healthy love and concern and healing going on. It’s a shame that sometimes what is good and right gets overshadowed by all the evil. King David knew about these things, too, and many of the psalms are an outpouring of his feelings of despair over evil and personal mistreatment by others.

    So while I understand that many people need what you suggested, what I would say is, I hope those people are in good counseling situations where they can learn to not feel the emotional trauma just from looking at a bible, for example. For a time, they may need to stay away from such triggers, but eventually, I would hope they could come to a place where they can open the pages of Scripture and read about God’s amazing grace!

    I’ve read some good books on spiritual abuse. Probably the best one, one that I think is still the “gold standard” out there on the subject is The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by Van Vonderan. If you ever take a notion to read books on the subject, I recommend it highly.

    I hope I didn’t come on too strong or pedantic here (I’ve been known to sometimes be the proverbial “bull in a china shop”). And I agree with Sandy – I don’t think you’ve stirred up anything negative at all. I’m glad you could say what you said, and I pray that God will bless you bunches!

  20. Brandi says:

    I cannot help but think that this could be so much fun! I have a variety of acquaintances and co-workers who have beliefs that differ from my own…and we have an absolute blast discussing and sharing our different points of view. We do so in a very loving…very respectful…very open manner. I have found that a couple of things almost always happen to me following this type of open dialogue…

    (1) I am typically compelled to research and to pray more feverantly about my own belief system…

    (2) I am become more certain of exactly what it is that I do believe…thus my faith becomes stronger…and consequently my love and my walk with my Savior become stronger…

    Have I every changed something that I believed? Absolutely…the wounds I have endured along with sin in my life have very much scared my vision…and as I have become healthier and my faith has become stronger I can see things so much clearer! Open dialogue allows me to consider perspectives that often have never occured to. And Satan…the father of lies…takes great pride in tricking a child of God into believing so many things that simply are not truth! Without truth we are in bondage…

    John 8:31-32:
    “To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

  21. “The Bible used more often than anything else to manipulate and control.” by the too often politically, opportunistically appointed bad elders and bad deacons and I too do Know there are too many of them now too.

    But if we all read the Bible more often ourselves we would not be so easily lead astray by others, or falsely turn to them for help..

    The Bible is the most effective counseling tool.. without out it you are merely rather wasting time, spinning energy generally

    http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com

  22. I too now was shocked when I became a real Christian, not a pretend one, how my version of Christianity now differed from so many loudly professing Christians on many issues now as well such as spiritual gifts, helping poor people. But why?

    (Mark 3:33 KJV) And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

    (Mat 25:31 KJV) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    And I had to really rightfully conclude that the others were not real Christians, were persons who did not read the whole Bible, they were not practicing the truth, the faith according to the New Testament, the whole Bible too but they wrongfully these others they now were preaching, practicing the overly false, simplified Gospel according to them. They did this because they were hirelings, false , false teachers false prophets, false pastors, false elders, false evangelists, false deacons, a false Christian.

    God still opposes all Churches, leader’s sins, and their human rights abuses, and the best way to deal with it is to shout it from the housetops, call the police.. expose it to all.. I do.

    >>And there are lots of other charities that help saints overseas. Groups like the Salvation Army have a presence in many nations.

    Dream on..

    I had personally witnessed Salvation army personnel stealing for themselves what the citizens had donated to the poor, and a secretary of the organization next even confirmed it to me.. as I had detailed to major news editors in Canada. We can also know that over 70 percent of the donations tends not to reach the intended persons in most organizations, cause the overheads, corruptions, even for the empire building as well are much too high..

    >>Judas robbed from the treasury, but was it wrong for people to give Jesus and His disciples a donation? Should we all stop giving to groups that are making some effort to help because the targets of the donations only receive 30%? Keep working to expose the corruption, we certainly want the crooks in those groups tossed out. But once you have a better group in place, be sure to let us know.

    As far as a good system to give to the poor.. it is already there in the book of acts.. it is giving to the poor through your local church.. even the old testament tithe insisted that 1/7 of the tithe be given to the local poor people. We all do have a responsibility to give firstly to the poor in our own church, neighborhood through the local church, and that is why the Deacons were set to do this. If the deacons are not doing this.. that is another issue.. and yes still we have a responsibly always still to insure the moneys is not being stolen, even in churches now too.

    (Acts 6:1 KJV) And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. 2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables .3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

    (Acts 2:45 KJV) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (Acts 4:35 KJV) And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
    Galatians 6:10 (New American Standard Bible) 10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

    Apostle Paul beyond a shadow of doubt a real Christian, who took all precautions not to give any offence, was honest, trustworthy too.. was definitely also working in helping the poor people in Rome, elsewhere, as part as his Christian Duties too now, so should all Pastors thus now too!

    Rev George Mueller is a classical example of a faith ministry helping poor persons., and this pastor did not live high on the hog in the process too, he was not empire building, or helping himself. Mother Theresa and many others now as well.

    In fact the whole New testament Christian church was helping the Poor Christian persons firstly not just apostle Paul, for they will know we are Christians by how we love one another, not our mere words still too– he Paul was just a delivery boy on behalf of the Christian Church, And all pastors need to help the poor people in their church, all churches too.. Jesus Christ cared for the poor people! yes he fed them, healed them, delivered them too.
    and all very much unlike these days where the evangelical leaders live high on the hog, and their churches especially seems to be too self centered, have falsely abdicated their duties, roles falsely in helping the poor people.. but seem too readily even these days to steal the tithe..

    Undeniably 1/7 of the tithe was to be given directly to the local poor people, can any local evangelical, catholic church , even the cult Mormon prove in fact that they do this? The tithe itself also could not be used for paying of mortgages, nor can any person owning any tangible property- real estate , even supposedly poor person or a Christian worker received any portion of the tithe now as well… just as these same principles are applied to persons receiving social welfare from the governments too.

    The priests themselves in the book of Malachi themselves now by God were rightfully accused of abusing, or stealing God’s tithes , and that happens too often theses days now still in the churches. I had many an evangelical pastor tell me they would kick me out of their church if I preached any of this above in their church too. I have even seen evangelical pastors often steal directly myself and reported it too.

    Yes my main point was the Godly, Biblical pattern for giving to the poor people set forth for giving to the poor people was definitely through the church still, if the LOCAL church is not doing it, it is time to get the LOCAL church in order.

    and I for certainly and now on many, many occasions I do not trust rightfully the Salvation Army to do this, especially since they too often clearly have departed from the faith, and employed ungodly believers to do their work too often too. Nor even the Christian Missionary Alliance church and rightfully as well and I have detailed on my sites why too.

    I had also noted in the past from a study of events band history that the most lasting efforts, contributions were those that involved the Church directly… which now includes shelters, hospital and university too and worldwide. Famous university, hospitals were originally started by Christian organizations, churches, in Canada and the US now too, both Catholic and protestant ones too.

    And where local churches who don’t have the infrastructure to help poor people in their church should establish one.. and yes they can send money to another church they can really trust to do this too in another country to help the poor people there.. it is an still unacceptable sin how much too often now the donations are too often abused. We as Christians have to be diligent to see next also how the money is obeying spent, not just in donating it.

    >> In scripture, aid went to the saints according to their need, not location.

    this is a distortion of the truth to me.. all poor people need to be helped, locally firstly.

    (1 Tim 5:8 KJV) But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

    (1 Tim 5:9 KJV) Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, 10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

    (Acts 6:3 KJV) Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

    I think that we are to take care of the local poor Christian Brethren in our own church first and even also help the unsaved elsewhere next also does not mean we do stop giving firstly to our own family members..but just giving to our own family is not enough..Job also helped everyone he could starting locallyA person’s attiude to the poor and to money shows in reality a lot of what their Christianity is really like too and where are these honest men in the local churches today? they are not all to be like the Apostle Judas. They are to be unlike most of the TV evangelists, big Ministries too, who live high on the hog, drive nice cars, live in expensive mansions and this is never acceptable still to God for sure, I know! for he told me so too!!

    And hey it was in Alberta, Canada that I saw, met, witnessed the most crooked pastors, evangelicals, even the Baptist, Alliance, Salvation Army, and i never saw so many crooked bad pastors in one place too.. but next saw them in other cities in Canada now too.. I saw pastors steal directly in Calgary too, and often.

    I was in a super great Church once, even though the Pastors were stealing, abusing the funds, committing adultery, counseling divorce, gossiping, slandering, lying, and so forth. The Holy Spirit due to the prayers of some of the faithful persons there was really moving in their services, and many people were getting saved, healed and delivered, and the praise and worship services were really great. God specifically had told me to go to this church as well, but he had put a condition on it, he said do not talk with, communicate, fellowship with any of the pastors. I had done some great personal counseling in that Church as well.. met some great and also bad people. But eventually one day next came when I had to talk to the same pastors, and even to tell them that God was going to get rid of them, to next deal with them negatively and God did! God next broke down this large Calgary church because it had grown big in size and had become perverse. All of the pastors were next removed from it as well.

    It has always been shocking to me when someone had personally said to me the pastor has abused me.. he was unkind, unloving, he even lied.. for that is the last place I have expected to find an abusive persons, a pastor of a Church.

    I was really surprised that most evangelical, Pentecostal pastors in Alberta too are control freaks too.. who even meddle into homes now too.. other person’s lives..

    THE MAN KING OF THE HOUSE, THE WOMAN HIS DUTIFUL SUBJECT. The man is the king of the household, and the wife is only the prime minister. There is no confusion or overlapping of authority. The will of the husband is law. He has the only place of honor . The arrangements of the house, the company entertained, and the service employed, all have respect to his wishes and to his convenience. The wife conducts the affairs of state for the king. She has her household and, more than her personal allowance, and she renders a strict account of stewardship. The wife’s personal expenditures are less, much less than the husband’s. The will of the husband is the undisputed law; as to the wife her person, her property, her children under his sole control even to the present time are the rights secured to the husband under present English law. Like it or not but these laws were based on the Bible, which states (Eph 5:23 KJV) ” For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body”

    and most Evangelical pastors DO need to recognize, preach AND PRACTICE this still too.

    Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks, persons, civil and public servants, politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,

    Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.

    It has been also my experience that when you stand up for God, his truths, Satan immediate will oppose it.. (Mat 16:23 KJV) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

    (Micah 3:6 KJV) Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them. 7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God. 8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

  23. Brandi says:

    Please forgive me…but I respectfully need to ask whether or not I am understanding correctly some of what you have said…do you personally believe the following paragraph that you wrote…

    thenoncomformer said:
    “THE MAN KING OF THE HOUSE, THE WOMAN HIS DUTIFUL SUBJECT. The man is the king of the household, and the wife is only the prime minister. There is no confusion or overlapping of authority. The will of the husband is law. He has the only place of honor . The arrangements of the house, the company entertained, and the service employed, all have respect to his wishes and to his convenience. The wife conducts the affairs of state for the king. She has her household and, more than her personal allowance, and she renders a strict account of stewardship. The wife’s personal expenditures are less, much less than the husband’s. The will of the husband is the undisputed law; as to the wife her person, her property, her children under his sole control even to the present time are the rights secured to the husband under present English law. Like it or not but these laws were based on the Bible, which states (Eph 5:23 KJV) ” For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body” and most Evangelical pastors DO need to recognize, preach AND PRACTICE this still too.”

    OR were you simply stating that this a specific example of the “religious abuse” that has been discussed within this blog…I wondered since you followed that paragraph with this statement…

    thenoncomformer said:
    “Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks, persons, civil and public servants, politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,”

  24. Bettina says:

    I just wanted to pop back in, here and say to Lynn…that I was speaking from my own personal experience, when I said that the Bible is most often used. In my experience…that is what I have seen. It may not be an actual statistic. I have also been in recovery groups and heard story after story from women (and one man) who were sexually abused by their fundamentalist, Christian MINISTER fathers! If these people now reject Christianity, but still choose love, you can never make me believe in a God who would send them to hell…yet if you take the words in the Bible literally, that is what will happen. That is why, though I love Jesus and resonate with his teachings, I no longer trust, 100%, in a book that what written by men. Men inspired by God, some would answer, but I would say that I am inspired by God in everything I create…words, music, art. Will you accept me in that way? Long ago, I asked my Creator for discernment of Spirit. Did he turn me away? That is not what the Bible promises. That is why I trust my own connection beyond any book or teacher. This does not mean I don’t listen to what people have to say. I just use my own connection to decide what is true.

    Brandi…I am a Unitarian Universalist. In that church, we can discuss all beliefs, including Christianity. We share with each other and support each other in our individual Spiritual paths. Lots of wounded Christians end up here, because they still recognize the need to gather in the name of love. I feel more fed in our little congregation, than any other church I have belonged to. You might really enjoy some of our discussions. No one is judged or made an outcast, as long as their sharing is respectful of the beliefs of others.

    Much love to everyone,

    Bettina

  25. Brandi says:

    Bettina,
    I am so glad that you did “drop back in”…

    I ask for your patience with me as I try to understand the logic and process in my own mind something that you were saying in your comments to Lynn…

    A fundamentalist Christian minister sexually abuses his son/daughter…
    And as a result the son/daughter chooses to reject the truth of Christianity…right?

    Isn’t that pretty much the same as saying…

    A physics professor sexually abuses his son/daughter…
    And as a result the son/daughter rejects the truth of the Law of Physics…??

    My thought being…simply because a depraved human abuses an innocent child…that doesn’t make God’s Word untrue…just like it doesn’t make the laws of physics untrue.

    It would be much different if the Word of God/Law of Physics encouraged and instructed such depravity…but you will NOT find that anywhere in His Word nor for that matter in the Laws of Physics… As a matter of fact, you will find that the punishment for such abuse is very clear and quite severe in scripture…

    Matthew 18:6 – Jesus Christ’s own words…
    “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
    Other references: Mark 9:42, Luke 17:2…

    My heart absolutely aches for the pain that these detestable people have inflicted on the very ones that they were appointed to protect…but to reject the Truth because of their perverted sin only serves to broaden the tragedy…and widen the scope and depth of the wounds that these sick perverts have inflicted…some wounds which may very well be spiritually fatal. Thus…the victim is victimized yet again… oh how that grieves me.

    Thoughts?

  26. Lynn says:

    just wanted to pop back in, here and say to Lynn…that I was speaking from my own personal experience, when I said that the Bible is most often used. In my experience…that is what I have seen. It may not be an actual statistic.

    Thanks for clarifying.

    If these people now reject Christianity, but still choose love, you can never make me believe in a God who would send them to hell…yet if you take the words in the Bible literally, that is what will happen.

    If I take the bible literally when it speaks of eternal destiny, it says that it is God who saves people, that it is not of one’s own works lest any man should boast before God, and that God has known from before their conception which are His children.

    It also says if anyone’s name is not found written in the book of life he will be thrown into the lake of fire.

    I’d rather focus on what I do know the Bible says than to guess at anybody’s particular state of salvation. God will call each to account for the responsibility each did have before God, and it is God with whom we have to do. I guess I have enough to worry about, making sure I am reconciled to God through faith in His Son.

    My only other thought is that Christians believe that Jesus, in His glorified body, still bears the marks of the abuse He received at the hands of religious people and “ministers,” if you will.

    Foxe’s book of martyrs is a collection of the “little” people of this earth where tortures comparable to rape — including evisceration, drowning, burning, having tongues cut out before that, and more, were done by “ministers” and “religious” people to the people they were killing, including children watching this happen to their moms and dads. Joan of Arc is an example in point. Whether or not she had a true vision to save France is not the point. The point is she kept her faith in God, even as she was being interrogated and subsequently burned to death.

    Those who have faith in the Risen Christ will be kept by God. Though they may stumble for a time, God keeps them. So, Brandi, I don’t know that Jesus was referring to the eternal destiny of those who stumble. Jesus said the little ones “who believed in him” were made to stumble.

    Now, perhaps on account of abuse by ministers and other figures who make us think about God, they stumble for a time, being abused by such, yet there is a verse in Psalms which says, “though he fall, he will not be hurled headlong,” speaking of the righteous.

    I can’t get into particulars of severely abused people saying they don’t believe in Jesus, on account of so-called Christians raping or in other ways abusing them, whether they are truly saved or not.

    Because in the final analysis, God holds each person responsible for his or her own sin, not the sins of others against them, and abuse by clergy can cause severe confusion, but I don’t see the whole of a person’s life and how God leads them out of that, or whether they harden their hearts against God. We may not see past the confusion abuse causes to see the real faith or lack thereof in an abused person’s life, and we aren’t around at the vast majority of people’s death beds to hear their final words and beliefs on the subject.

    God judges each person according to what they have done, and whether it was done in faith that it is God alone who can save from sins.

    Also, abusers who genuinely cry out for forgiveness can be saved, and abused people who do come to understand the gospel, and separate it out from their abusers, and truly reject Jesus still, can spend an eternity separated from Christ.

    And abusers can remain unrepentant, and the abused can forgive and believe the best they know how and be saved, and who is in what category is beyond me.

    Life isn’t fair, and neither is God. But if God hadn’t sent Jesus, we’d all be on our way to hell. Salvation is more than any of us deserve.

    And this is way beyond the topic in the blog post . . .

  27. Sandy says:

    Lynn,
    It may be well beyond the topic but relevant nonetheless.

    Sandy

  28. Brandi says:

    “Those who have faith in the Risen Christ will be kept by God. Though they may stumble for a time, God keeps them. So, Brandi, I don’t know that Jesus was referring to the eternal destiny of those who stumble. Jesus said the little ones “who believed in him” were made to stumble.

    Lynn, Forgive me, but I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean…I did not intend to suggest that the passage of scripture I referenced was referring to anyone’s “eternal destiny”. But merely pointing out the fact that the consequences for those who abuse children…are quite severe. Yes…they were made to stumble…and often times out of simply trying to cope with what they have endured they sin…they become promiscuous…they turn to addictions…and sadly some even become a perpetrator themselves… they were not responsible for what was done against them…however, they are responsible for what they choose to do with it. As an abuse survivor I was able to finally grasp that truth – as a child I was NOT responsible for the abuse that was perpetrated against me…however, as an adult, I AM now responsible for what I do with that abuse. I could have chosen to continue to play the role of “victim”…or I could have chosen to become a “survivor”. Regretfully, I chose to play the victim for years…setting myself up to be victimized time and again…leading myself deeper and deeper into sin…that being the tragedy that I spoke of. Not only did I allow my abuser to victimize me initially…I allowed my abuser to continue to abuse me long after the final wound was opened. Some are never able to break that cycle of sin by allowing Jesus Christ to be Lord of their life…they instead reject Him and sadly seal their own fate…

    Couple of random comments…

    PREDESINATION:
    I will not for a moment pretend to even be able to begin to wrap my mind around the concept of predestination…cause, honestly, it really hurts my brain to go there. All I know about that is that God is omniscient…so He knows who will ultimately accept Him and who will ultimately reject Him…but I personally do not have that knowledge. Thus, I am compelled to tell everyone I encounter about Him…and leave the rest up to Him.

    CAN AN ABUSER BE SAVED?:
    My primary abuser lived a life of depravity…he absolutely shattered a number of lives, including my own…his abuse still has far reaching implications in my own life and in those I love. However, thirty days prior to his death I heard him pray to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior… and his final month on this earth were an unbelievable testimony of that prayer. So…yes, based on both the promises of God’s Word and my own personal experience with my abuser I am convinced that an abuser can absolutely be saved…just like any of us sinners! Praise God!!

  29. Lynn says:

    Lynn, Forgive me, but I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean…I did not intend to suggest that the passage of scripture I referenced was referring to anyone’s “eternal destiny”. But merely pointing out the fact that the consequences for those who abuse children…are quite severe. Yes…they were made to stumble…and often times out of simply trying to cope with what they have endured they sin…they become promiscuous…they turn to addictions…and sadly some even become a perpetrator themselves… they were not responsible for what was done against them…however, they are responsible for what they choose to do with it.

    You’re right — I read more into your comment than what you said. I agree with you.

  30. Brandi says:

    Oh good…since I forgot to close out my italics/bold after the scripture references I started wondering if maybe you thought I was including the next paragraph with that scripture…and maybe somehow that gave you the wrong impression… 🙂

    You know it is so easy to misunderstand the written word…you don’t have body language and voice fluctuations to help you determine others intent…I am just so pleased that you felt free enough to question what you thought I meant. Thank you!

    Blessings!

  31. Lynn says:

    since I forgot to close out my italics/bold after the scripture references I started wondering if maybe you thought I was including the next paragraph with that scripture

    Yes, I included all the bolded remarks as part of your application of that Scripture, so thanks for clarifying.

  32. Bettina says:

    There is so much to respond to and I wish I had more time, but my life is very full. The abused people that I spoke of, still had hearts full of love. Judgement and condemnation do not come from love. So many Christians…and I’m still trying to be gentle, here, as I realize that not all Christians do this, use “The Word of God” to frighten people into choosing Jesus. I believe the message he came to bring was to choose love. That’s it…in a nutshell. Of course to choose Him, could mean doing that, but it can also be used in other ways. When we chose love, Heaven starts here. When we choose fear…we create our own Hell. These are simple and truthful concepts that were being shared with a people of ancient tradition and firm beliefs, many of which were based in fear. God = Love. I will not fear Love. I will not frighten people into choosing love. When Jesus said, no one can come to the Father but by Me, I believe he was saying no one can come to love, but by love. I believe that when we choose love, we are choosing a personal relationship with the Creator…whether we know it, or not.

    Brandi…”A physics professor sexually abuses his son/daughter…
    And as a result the son/daughter rejects the truth of the Law of Physics…??”

    I was speaking, here, of ministers who use the Bible to abuse. They actually use their authority and knowledge of the Bible, to twist and confuse the child. If a physics professor used physics to abuse…then I would not be surprised to find the abused child turn away from physics and toward more challenging beliefs…like Spirit…where anything is possible.

    Much love, everyone.

    B

  33. Lynn says:

    Bettina, I’m glad you share your thoughts here. It helps me to understand how I might come across sometimes to others, and gives me a reminder to be careful in what I say, and I appreciate your perspectives.

    I agree with what you said about the physics teacher vs the minister. If it is the Bible that seems to be the origin of the abuse, of course it can be a painful trigger later on to some, and this must be understood, and not condemned (ie – “what’s wrong with you, you must be under a satanic attack, why can’t you forgive and trust God” kind of comments). But a physics teacher doesn’t use the teachings of physics to abuse.

  34. Afghani journalism student Parwiz Kambakhsh has been sentenced to death for blaspheming because he not only downloaded articles regarding woman’s right’s under Islam, but also exposing the brutality against women and children by the local warlords in his community. He is being sentenced to death for “disseminating defamatory comments about Islam.”Say it isn’t soooo? Sounds like another mo-ham-med teddy bear moment to me! A three judge panel decided that his articles were blasphemous and sentenced him to die. That’s Shari’ah Law for you. The issue for this writer is the Islamic concept of blasphemy.. This is what Canadians are dying for over there now too? http://gto7.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/islam-is-truly-satans-religion/

    Some persons try to say that Islam has freed them, but did your brothers, father, government free you yet too? or are they still killing, murdering you ?

    Physical abuse, Human rights abuses, Verbal abuse, silent treatment or being a control freak is also not acceptable even on the net.. For any religion to survive in the modern world, it needs to adapt to its reality, especially when it comes to equality between men and women concerning religious practices. As men and women should worship God in the same way, women should also have the same rights as women in assuming religious responsibilities.

    While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of polygamy, the rights of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. for a True Christian divorce is not permitted at all.. even if many Christians falsely practice it.

    Too Many persons do practice their own version of Christianity, and Islam it seems thus, based on what others have said it says too..

    It is true that there are many Muslims, men as well as women, who fully do not live up to the teachings of Islam, and the other religions now just as there are too many Christian men and women who do not live up to the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, the Bible undeniably.

    Muslims women themselves now often complain to news editors how they are abused by Muslim men. Muslim Religion and do not have equal rights to the men, for example the right to go to school in many Muslim countries now too.. Muslims have equal rights to the other citizens in the English speaking countries.. In fact non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims in many Muslim countries now too and all of these facts are undeniable, and undisputable.

    You must always still judge any person now by what they say, but by what they do. Bad people do bad things, no matter what their religion is now too.
    It is interesting that a lot of the comparative religion’s values stated on the internet was, are still based on how the followers of that religion, do respect the human rights of others too, and how they now do practically treat other, and each others too, especially how they do treat the women today, equally or unfairly now too. And while that alone is a valid point, especially since women make up over half of the population of the world, and all of this is valid especially , since God himself clearly and for certainty does not allow the abuse of any persons, verbally or physically, or allow now any human rights abuses now as well, and for any reasons as well, and that now also still even includes any man, woman, child, and any seniors now as well, any abuses of self or others are sinful…While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. It is true that there are many Muslims, men as well as women, who fully do not live up to the teachings of Islam, just as there are many Christian men and women who do not live up to the teachings of Jesus. You must always still judge any person now by what they say, but by what they do. Bad people do bad things, no matter what their religion is now too. Also real Reform from within Muslim societies is still even needed, first by education, knowing that over half of Muslims today, are illiterate, only 15 percent know Arabic, which is the language of the Qur’an, the holy book of Islam. Too Many persons do practice their own version of Christianity, and Islam it seems thus, what others have said it says too..

    What others say

    “Islam as a religion aiming to oppress women is a direct result of the abuse of Islam by some Muslim states, depending on the absolute respect given to religion by Muslim societies. In fact, Islamic law, if interpreted outside of its proper context, could be abused to justify and codify the violations of women’s rights in Muslim societies and states in the name of religion, in order to achieve certain social and political goals. The central question that poses itself, is whether there already exists a space for women to enjoy their human rights under the umbrella of Islam, or whether in general, men “have a degree” over women in Islam (Abdul-Ati). If some people are arguing that Islam ensures equity between men and women in both rights and duties, then what does it mean when the Qur’an, which is the standard revelatory source of Islamic Law, says: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage in some cases of inheritance) over them,” (Qur’an 2:228). How would those people explain the meaning of that “degree” that men have over women? Is it because of that revelatory verse that some Muslim societies until now treat women as second-degree creatures in the name of Islam? The existence of some specific women’s rights in Islam is now obvious, and provided with a good argument, but how about polygamy in Islam? Is it true that a Muslim man has the right to marry up to four wives? Where is equity, then? What does it mean when the Qur’an states that a Muslim man, if he has the potential, can choose to marry one or two or three, or even four women (Badawi)? Does it mean that women are that marginalized and humiliated by the name of the religion?”
    http://takingitglobal.org/express/panorama/article.html?ContentID=2393

    It is a sad note as well that both religious persons of all the minor, major religions too, and non religious persons, at least 90 percent of them, have been, or are still unacceptably guilty of false the discriminations of others, even too often the accusers of the others.

    There is still a serious, real need in changing the Muslim countries’ laws, agendas, in order to fill the gap between the supposed women’s rights afforded by Islam, and women’s rights afforded in reality by many of the Muslim societies, and most Muslim males have to accept some serious religious even re-education.. Also real Reform from within Muslim societies is still even needed, first by even education, knowing that over half of Muslims today, are illiterate, only 15 percent do even know Arabic, which is the language of the Qur’an, the holy book of Islam.

    “I don’t understand how Islam supposedly can give all these rights to women and then place the man as the head of the household in a position to abuse the woman’s rights. For instance, how can she hold on to her personal wealth if he tells her to hand it over? I do not know one Muslim family where the man is not abusing his position in some way.” Surah 4 – verse 34: *{… as to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them [first], [next] refuse to share their beds, [and last] beat them [lightly]; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means [of annoyance]: for God is Most High, Great [above you all].}* Can a wife beat her unfaithful husband according to Islam now too? Another central issue should be re-examined–the common practise of Islam where a Muslim man’s testimony in a court is counted as equal to the testimony of two Muslim women. That itself is degrading. “and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as you choose for witnesses so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. ” (Qur’an 2:282). ” Much too many Muslim men consider this verse religious evidence that women are mentally deficient.” ” Many persons consider the standing of Muslim women behind men in prayers a practical evidence that women under Islam, are excluded and humiliated, even in matters regarding their spiritual rights and there is no justification for the standing of women behind men.”
    “My beloved wife oftentimes reminds my family to regard her with respect to her mind, but my mama and papa laugh at her. What can I say to my wife to stop her from slapping them down in anger? “. If husband can divorce his wife by saying 3 talak at a time & marriage is over, then how does Islam protect women’s right? Many husbands do abuse their divorce power. All the Muslim men who claim to be Muslims and abuse the women supposedly do not even know well their own religion or do not practice it? and for too many Muslim men it seems also it does not matter what Islam says because he is only following what pleases him, his interests, his interpreations of the laws.. sad.. Also since Islam came supposedly with higher moral laws to correct those of the Jahiliyyah, why didn’t Islam abolish enslaving women and children at times of war? Any abuse of anyone by anyone still is unacceptable. ” Everytime I ask my dad to open a bank account for me, he says I am a girl and therefore I should not get a bank account, while my younger brother has a bank account…” all about the true side of Islam.

    “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. Surah 4 Verse 19″
    …They (Your wives) are your garments and ye are their garments. …. Surah 2 Verse 187

    “Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.”

    Physical abuse, Human rights abuses, Verbal abuse, silent treatment or being a control freak is also not acceptable even on the net..

    Muslims women themselves now often complain to news editors how they are abused by Muslim men. Muslim Religion and do not have equal rights to the men, for example the right to go to school in many Muslim countries now too.. Muslims have equal rights to the other citizens in the English speaking countries.. In fact non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims in many Muslim countries now too and all of these facts are undeniable, and undisputable.
    .. I am also sure if you ask enough people, continue to look for it that you can find just about any answer you want to justify your continuing to sin as well.. but you are fooling only yourself still and not God.

    Note: Sikhism now also like Mormons, Hindus, Jehovah Witnesses, Islam , Buddhism, and many others too are a cult, sect that bears no genuine relationship to Christianity too. It does not follow the Christian Bible too.

    One cannot help but notice how so many of these religions differ but now they still do claim to be originated with God. A true God is certainly not so confused that he has started all these various, different and false religions.

    While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. for a True Christian divorce is not permitted at all.. even if many Christians falsely practice it.

    but one should also clearly note that the religion own method of the absolute treatment of the forgiveness of personal sins is also more important to note, recognize now as well. Only the Christian religion undeniable provides assurance of one’s personal salvation, entrance to Heaven and clearly now promises immediate complete forgiveness too, through the past shed blood of God, Jesus Christ Himself !

  35. Brandi says:

    Bettina,

    Oh how I praise God that the people that you spoke of are still able to have “hearts of love” after all they have endured!! That in and of itself is a miracle! And I can quite certainly understand why they would want nothing to do with Christianity after being abused in that manner. The point of my analogy about physics was certainly not intended in any way to minimize what they have been through…or to even condemn them for turning away…to reject everything your abuser stands for is a response that would only be natural…trust me, I know. My only point with the analogy was simply that truth is truth…and I can butcher my interpretation of it…I can pervert it to hurt others…I can twist it and lie about it…all of which is so very wrong and so very tragic…but the truth remains the truth regardless of me. It is kind of like when someone says they don’t believe in God…well, He is still God…He doesn’t stop existing simply because someone says that He is not there. Am I making any sense?

    I so wish I could disagree with what you have said about some people using ,=“the Word of God to frighten people into choosing Jesus”…but the sad reality is that there are some who do just that. I actually experienced that very thing just a few weeks ago…my daughter was attending vacation bible school at my sister-in-law’s church…and thank goodness they had taken my daughter’s age group (4 year olds) downstairs prior to the pastor speaking to the 5 year olds thru 12 year olds…I was absolutely mortified when he actually stood before these children and practically screamed at them “DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WHEN YOU DIE!!!???” Although it is a very important question that we all must consider at some point in our lives, I simply could not believe that he was screaming it at precious little ones, many of whom have heard very little about Jesus…had it not been so appalling his ignorance actually might have been quite comical.

    I hope you will continue to visit Sandy’s blog…and I am so relieved that you do not equate all Christians with those with whom you have had these deplorable experiences.

    Blessings to you,
    Brandi <

  36. Bettina says:

    Lynn…”But a physics teacher doesn’t use the teachings of physics to abuse.”

    I was just responding to Brandi’s question with an example. But it is possible for this to happen. One example might be…well…for instance…I believe in miracles. I believe in an unlimited Creator who can alter what we perceive as the laws of physics. Remember we were, originally talking about verbal abuse, here. It would be pretty easy for someone who only relies on what he/she can see and touch, to put down someone with my beliefs as crazy. Before I took responsibility for my own feelings, I could be very hurt by people who I thought were more intelligent than me and a physics professor would, certainly…at one time…have fallen into that category. An unenlightened person could use anything to abuse…even the laws of physics.

    ((hugs))

    Bettina

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