I was just responding to Brandi’s question with an example. But it is possible for this to happen. One example might be…well…for instance…I believe in miracles. I believe in an unlimited Creator who can alter what we perceive as the laws of physics. Remember we were, originally talking about verbal abuse, here. It would be pretty easy for someone who only relies on what he/she can see and touch, to put down someone with my beliefs as crazy. Before I took responsibility for my own feelings, I could be very hurt by people who I thought were more intelligent than me and a physics professor would, certainly…at one time…have fallen into that category. An unenlightened person could use anything to abuse…even the laws of physics.

((hugs))

Bettina

Oh how I praise God that the people that you spoke of are still able to have “hearts of love” after all they have endured!! That in and of itself is a miracle! And I can quite certainly understand why they would want nothing to do with Christianity after being abused in that manner. The point of my analogy about physics was certainly not intended in any way to minimize what they have been through…or to even condemn them for turning away…to reject everything your abuser stands for is a response that would only be natural…trust me, I know. My only point with the analogy was simply that truth is truth…and I can butcher my interpretation of it…I can pervert it to hurt others…I can twist it and lie about it…all of which is so very wrong and so very tragic…but the truth remains the truth regardless of me. It is kind of like when someone says they don’t believe in God…well, He is still God…He doesn’t stop existing simply because someone says that He is not there. Am I making any sense?

I so wish I could disagree with what you have said about some people using ,=“the Word of God to frighten people into choosing Jesus”…but the sad reality is that there are some who do just that. I actually experienced that very thing just a few weeks ago…my daughter was attending vacation bible school at my sister-in-law’s church…and thank goodness they had taken my daughter’s age group (4 year olds) downstairs prior to the pastor speaking to the 5 year olds thru 12 year olds…I was absolutely mortified when he actually stood before these children and practically screamed at them “DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WHEN YOU DIE!!!???” Although it is a very important question that we all must consider at some point in our lives, I simply could not believe that he was screaming it at precious little ones, many of whom have heard very little about Jesus…had it not been so appalling his ignorance actually might have been quite comical.

I hope you will continue to visit Sandy’s blog…and I am so relieved that you do not equate all Christians with those with whom you have had these deplorable experiences.

Blessings to you,
Brandi <

Some persons try to say that Islam has freed them, but did your brothers, father, government free you yet too? or are they still killing, murdering you ?

Physical abuse, Human rights abuses, Verbal abuse, silent treatment or being a control freak is also not acceptable even on the net.. For any religion to survive in the modern world, it needs to adapt to its reality, especially when it comes to equality between men and women concerning religious practices. As men and women should worship God in the same way, women should also have the same rights as women in assuming religious responsibilities.

While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of polygamy, the rights of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. for a True Christian divorce is not permitted at all.. even if many Christians falsely practice it.

Too Many persons do practice their own version of Christianity, and Islam it seems thus, based on what others have said it says too..

It is true that there are many Muslims, men as well as women, who fully do not live up to the teachings of Islam, and the other religions now just as there are too many Christian men and women who do not live up to the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, the Bible undeniably.

Muslims women themselves now often complain to news editors how they are abused by Muslim men. Muslim Religion and do not have equal rights to the men, for example the right to go to school in many Muslim countries now too.. Muslims have equal rights to the other citizens in the English speaking countries.. In fact non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims in many Muslim countries now too and all of these facts are undeniable, and undisputable.

You must always still judge any person now by what they say, but by what they do. Bad people do bad things, no matter what their religion is now too.
It is interesting that a lot of the comparative religion’s values stated on the internet was, are still based on how the followers of that religion, do respect the human rights of others too, and how they now do practically treat other, and each others too, especially how they do treat the women today, equally or unfairly now too. And while that alone is a valid point, especially since women make up over half of the population of the world, and all of this is valid especially , since God himself clearly and for certainty does not allow the abuse of any persons, verbally or physically, or allow now any human rights abuses now as well, and for any reasons as well, and that now also still even includes any man, woman, child, and any seniors now as well, any abuses of self or others are sinful…While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. It is true that there are many Muslims, men as well as women, who fully do not live up to the teachings of Islam, just as there are many Christian men and women who do not live up to the teachings of Jesus. You must always still judge any person now by what they say, but by what they do. Bad people do bad things, no matter what their religion is now too. Also real Reform from within Muslim societies is still even needed, first by education, knowing that over half of Muslims today, are illiterate, only 15 percent know Arabic, which is the language of the Qur’an, the holy book of Islam. Too Many persons do practice their own version of Christianity, and Islam it seems thus, what others have said it says too..

What others say

“Islam as a religion aiming to oppress women is a direct result of the abuse of Islam by some Muslim states, depending on the absolute respect given to religion by Muslim societies. In fact, Islamic law, if interpreted outside of its proper context, could be abused to justify and codify the violations of women’s rights in Muslim societies and states in the name of religion, in order to achieve certain social and political goals. The central question that poses itself, is whether there already exists a space for women to enjoy their human rights under the umbrella of Islam, or whether in general, men “have a degree” over women in Islam (Abdul-Ati). If some people are arguing that Islam ensures equity between men and women in both rights and duties, then what does it mean when the Qur’an, which is the standard revelatory source of Islamic Law, says: “And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage in some cases of inheritance) over them,” (Qur’an 2:228). How would those people explain the meaning of that “degree” that men have over women? Is it because of that revelatory verse that some Muslim societies until now treat women as second-degree creatures in the name of Islam? The existence of some specific women’s rights in Islam is now obvious, and provided with a good argument, but how about polygamy in Islam? Is it true that a Muslim man has the right to marry up to four wives? Where is equity, then? What does it mean when the Qur’an states that a Muslim man, if he has the potential, can choose to marry one or two or three, or even four women (Badawi)? Does it mean that women are that marginalized and humiliated by the name of the religion?”
http://takingitglobal.org/express/panorama/article.html?ContentID=2393

It is a sad note as well that both religious persons of all the minor, major religions too, and non religious persons, at least 90 percent of them, have been, or are still unacceptably guilty of false the discriminations of others, even too often the accusers of the others.

There is still a serious, real need in changing the Muslim countries’ laws, agendas, in order to fill the gap between the supposed women’s rights afforded by Islam, and women’s rights afforded in reality by many of the Muslim societies, and most Muslim males have to accept some serious religious even re-education.. Also real Reform from within Muslim societies is still even needed, first by even education, knowing that over half of Muslims today, are illiterate, only 15 percent do even know Arabic, which is the language of the Qur’an, the holy book of Islam.

“I don’t understand how Islam supposedly can give all these rights to women and then place the man as the head of the household in a position to abuse the woman’s rights. For instance, how can she hold on to her personal wealth if he tells her to hand it over? I do not know one Muslim family where the man is not abusing his position in some way.” Surah 4 – verse 34: *{… as to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them [first], [next] refuse to share their beds, [and last] beat them [lightly]; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means [of annoyance]: for God is Most High, Great [above you all].}* Can a wife beat her unfaithful husband according to Islam now too? Another central issue should be re-examined–the common practise of Islam where a Muslim man’s testimony in a court is counted as equal to the testimony of two Muslim women. That itself is degrading. “and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as you choose for witnesses so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. ” (Qur’an 2:282). ” Much too many Muslim men consider this verse religious evidence that women are mentally deficient.” ” Many persons consider the standing of Muslim women behind men in prayers a practical evidence that women under Islam, are excluded and humiliated, even in matters regarding their spiritual rights and there is no justification for the standing of women behind men.”
“My beloved wife oftentimes reminds my family to regard her with respect to her mind, but my mama and papa laugh at her. What can I say to my wife to stop her from slapping them down in anger? “. If husband can divorce his wife by saying 3 talak at a time & marriage is over, then how does Islam protect women’s right? Many husbands do abuse their divorce power. All the Muslim men who claim to be Muslims and abuse the women supposedly do not even know well their own religion or do not practice it? and for too many Muslim men it seems also it does not matter what Islam says because he is only following what pleases him, his interests, his interpreations of the laws.. sad.. Also since Islam came supposedly with higher moral laws to correct those of the Jahiliyyah, why didn’t Islam abolish enslaving women and children at times of war? Any abuse of anyone by anyone still is unacceptable. ” Everytime I ask my dad to open a bank account for me, he says I am a girl and therefore I should not get a bank account, while my younger brother has a bank account…” all about the true side of Islam.

“O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. Surah 4 Verse 19″
…They (Your wives) are your garments and ye are their garments. …. Surah 2 Verse 187

“Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.”

Physical abuse, Human rights abuses, Verbal abuse, silent treatment or being a control freak is also not acceptable even on the net..

Muslims women themselves now often complain to news editors how they are abused by Muslim men. Muslim Religion and do not have equal rights to the men, for example the right to go to school in many Muslim countries now too.. Muslims have equal rights to the other citizens in the English speaking countries.. In fact non Muslims do not have the same rights as Muslims in many Muslim countries now too and all of these facts are undeniable, and undisputable.
.. I am also sure if you ask enough people, continue to look for it that you can find just about any answer you want to justify your continuing to sin as well.. but you are fooling only yourself still and not God.

Note: Sikhism now also like Mormons, Hindus, Jehovah Witnesses, Islam , Buddhism, and many others too are a cult, sect that bears no genuine relationship to Christianity too. It does not follow the Christian Bible too.

One cannot help but notice how so many of these religions differ but now they still do claim to be originated with God. A true God is certainly not so confused that he has started all these various, different and false religions.

While there are some common, rare similarity amongst some of the major religions in this world, The aspect of divorce is clearly one that contrasts them all.. for a True Christian divorce is not permitted at all.. even if many Christians falsely practice it.

but one should also clearly note that the religion own method of the absolute treatment of the forgiveness of personal sins is also more important to note, recognize now as well. Only the Christian religion undeniable provides assurance of one’s personal salvation, entrance to Heaven and clearly now promises immediate complete forgiveness too, through the past shed blood of God, Jesus Christ Himself !

I agree with what you said about the physics teacher vs the minister. If it is the Bible that seems to be the origin of the abuse, of course it can be a painful trigger later on to some, and this must be understood, and not condemned (ie – “what’s wrong with you, you must be under a satanic attack, why can’t you forgive and trust God” kind of comments). But a physics teacher doesn’t use the teachings of physics to abuse.

Brandi…”A physics professor sexually abuses his son/daughter…
And as a result the son/daughter rejects the truth of the Law of Physics…??”

I was speaking, here, of ministers who use the Bible to abuse. They actually use their authority and knowledge of the Bible, to twist and confuse the child. If a physics professor used physics to abuse…then I would not be surprised to find the abused child turn away from physics and toward more challenging beliefs…like Spirit…where anything is possible.

Much love, everyone.

B

Yes, I included all the bolded remarks as part of your application of that Scripture, so thanks for clarifying.

You know it is so easy to misunderstand the written word…you don’t have body language and voice fluctuations to help you determine others intent…I am just so pleased that you felt free enough to question what you thought I meant. Thank you!

Blessings!

You’re right — I read more into your comment than what you said. I agree with you.

Lynn, Forgive me, but I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean…I did not intend to suggest that the passage of scripture I referenced was referring to anyone’s “eternal destiny”. But merely pointing out the fact that the consequences for those who abuse children…are quite severe. Yes…they were made to stumble…and often times out of simply trying to cope with what they have endured they sin…they become promiscuous…they turn to addictions…and sadly some even become a perpetrator themselves… they were not responsible for what was done against them…however, they are responsible for what they choose to do with it. As an abuse survivor I was able to finally grasp that truth – as a child I was NOT responsible for the abuse that was perpetrated against me…however, as an adult, I AM now responsible for what I do with that abuse. I could have chosen to continue to play the role of “victim”…or I could have chosen to become a “survivor”. Regretfully, I chose to play the victim for years…setting myself up to be victimized time and again…leading myself deeper and deeper into sin…that being the tragedy that I spoke of. Not only did I allow my abuser to victimize me initially…I allowed my abuser to continue to abuse me long after the final wound was opened. Some are never able to break that cycle of sin by allowing Jesus Christ to be Lord of their life…they instead reject Him and sadly seal their own fate…

Couple of random comments…

PREDESINATION:
I will not for a moment pretend to even be able to begin to wrap my mind around the concept of predestination…cause, honestly, it really hurts my brain to go there. All I know about that is that God is omniscient…so He knows who will ultimately accept Him and who will ultimately reject Him…but I personally do not have that knowledge. Thus, I am compelled to tell everyone I encounter about Him…and leave the rest up to Him.

CAN AN ABUSER BE SAVED?:
My primary abuser lived a life of depravity…he absolutely shattered a number of lives, including my own…his abuse still has far reaching implications in my own life and in those I love. However, thirty days prior to his death I heard him pray to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior… and his final month on this earth were an unbelievable testimony of that prayer. So…yes, based on both the promises of God’s Word and my own personal experience with my abuser I am convinced that an abuser can absolutely be saved…just like any of us sinners! Praise God!!

Sandy